Minutes 12/12/95

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Present:                                                                         

Deowall Chattar		Mike Henry		Yince Loh		Joe Quaranta

Seth Dailey		Sarita Kaza		Edie Lederman		Yolanda Troublefield

Demetre Daskalakis	Eric Kim		Alan Liu		Rich Westreich

Melissa Fischer		Jason Kornberg		John-Paul Mead		Diana Yoon

Craig Gordon		Roland Knoblauch	Stephen Pool	
Not Present:		 (* = excused)				

Nayan Sivamurthy*
New Items: Proposed Curriculum Changes in the Clinical Years
Dean Abramson came and explained his concerns and the proposed new schedule. The curriculum that is currently in place was incorporated in 1991-92, and the changes then were similar to what schools such as Hopkins, Harvard, and U. Penn were doing. The goal of these changes was to give students a chance to explore other fields and do research in their third year. Most students have been happy with the flexible system, and an AAMC survey found that 50% of the students at NYU coauthored papers in their 3rd year (compared to a national avergae of 12%). Thus the new system was meeting the goal of students exploring other fields. Since then, however, other problems with this system have developed and the proposed changes (starting with the class of 98) are designed to address them.

  1. Locking of the distribution
    Students scheduled certain rotations in their fourth year, forcing a "spill over" and locking the class behind them into a similar distribution pattern.
  2. Pediatrics suffered most from the lockout because it was broken up into two blocks. Students would not receive a grade in Pediatrics until both halves of the course were completed, and often the second half of the course would be completed a year later. This also posed problems in designing a final exam. Consequently, many students did not have enough grades when the Dean's letter went out in November.
  3. Interview scheduling conflicts have arisen. Especially now, students seeking placement in highly competetive residencies have to interview at a lot of places. Students necessarily need this time off for interviews, but it should not be at the expense of a required course. The Core clerkships (except for neuro and now ambulatory care) are required for licensure in the State of New York, and "make up time" does not fit in with this philosophy. The nw deadline of Nov. 15 should resolve the scheduling conflicts from interviews.
  4. The mixture of 3rd and 4th year students has disadvantages for the 3rd year students. The fourth years are not as motivated or interested in the course and may miss time because of interviews, disrupting the teamwork format of the rotation. Also get scut work.
  5. "Switching" of students, causing unequal filling of clerkships.
  6. Most schools have an introductory to ambulatory care clerkship, and students will be doing these at gubernier and Bellevue.

Dean Abramson outlined the hierarchy for approval of these changes, from least to most important:

  1. Clerkship Directors and Students
  2. Curriculum Committee
  3. Department Chairs
  4. Dean Farber

Some Alternatives proposed by Dean Abramson

  1. An advanced science elective, moving some of the second year sciences into third year.
  2. Postponement of ambulatory care requirement to 4th yr.

MISC

  1. Transition Period will have an oversubscription problem, so course directors will use more sites (we have 7 hospitals).
  2. 4th years do not have to take ambulatory care, and can take 6 instead of 8 weeks of pediatrics.
  3. According to Dean Abramson, the average student took 10 weeks of electives 3rd year, (not including 2 weeks of vacation), and 10 students took over 18 weeks, and this is through July of 3rd yr.

John-Paul: Ok here are our proposals:

  1. Changing the date.
  2. Diana' s accepting the schedule but sitting down in a long dialogue with the Dean about changes.
  3. Melissa proposal of 5 week blocks and move date to Dec
  4. Take it as it is with minor changes

Melissa's proposal: 5 week blocks, move to Dec deadline; 18:4 against
Alan's proposal: ?:? carried
Dee's proposal: address senioritis -- not voted on
Stephen's proposal: 8:7 carried
Diana's motion: ?:? carried

Letter to students (drafted last week by Seth, Craig, John-Paul, Demetre and Sarita) will be modified and sent out tomorrow at noon unless you contact John-Paul or Sarita.

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